Madrid and Catalonia clash over independence referendum

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Niccolo and Donkey
Madrid and Catalonia clash over independence referendum


September 27, 2012

(Reuters) - The parliament of Spain's powerful but heavily indebted region of Catalonia voted in favor of holding a referendum on independence on Thursday, in defiance of Madrid which said it would stop any such move towards secession.

The vote in Catalonia, responsible for a fifth of the country's economic output, was backed by 84 parliament members including those of ruling party CiU, while 25 abstained, and 21 voted against holding a referendum.

The vote was held minutes after Deputy Prime Minister Soraya Saenz de Santamaria told reporters the national government was prepared to prevent any referendum.

Catalonia brought forward regional elections to November 25 after regional leader Artur Mas' proposal to create a separate Catalan tax agency was flatly rejected by Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy, who said it went against Spain's Constitution. Mas then said he would seek a referendum on an independent Catalonia.

Mas's conservative CiU party would likely win an absolute majority in elections, polls show, strengthening the push towards independence and delivering a blow to Rajoy who has called for national unity to counter the country's economic crisis.

Independence fervour has been growing in Catalonia during the deep recession.More than half of Catalans say they want a separate state.

Catalonia's regional government says it pays 16 billion euros more to the Spanish state than it receives in transfers.
Niccolo and Donkey

This is pretty cool, all the secessionism and nationalism in Europe right now. Western European karma for breaking up Eastern Europe.


More smoke screens from corrupt politicians to take the attention of citizens away from important matters.

Niccolo and Donkey
Angocachi Cornelio John Conquest Welund

Spain Rules Catalonia Independence Referendum "Unconstitutional"

With Scotland moving ever closer, Crimea having chosen their own path, and Venice overwhelmingly voting for secession from Italy, the Spanish government has put its foot down on the Catalonia's planned independence referendum . As Time reports , In a Tuesday ruling, Spanish judges found Catalonia’s planned independence referendum to be unconstitutional. Of course, just as in Crimea, this is being ignored by the Catalan government - a region seen as the powerhouse of the Spanish economy - who exclaimed " this will have no effect on the process ."

Via Time,

As Pater Tenebrarum noted , nation states are starting to splinter


Why bother saying that it's unconstitutional? Saying its unconstitutional is like saying "go ahead". Obviously it's unconstitutional. The point of secession is to opt out of a constitution. Is there such a thing as a constitutionally legal secession?

The secession of the Dixie?
It's been a long debate but it doesn't really mean anything of substance. When a part of a nation secedes the context changes. What do you do when a region breaks away? Do you take them to court because they technically broke the law? It's probably more likely that they get treated as a sovereign state. They no longer operate within a country so much as operating amongst other countries. It's up to the parts of the original state that didn't secede on how to treat them as a separate state and it's on a different dimension. They can either embrace the secession and promote free trade and all that, they can go to the other extreme and call it an insurgency and try to annex the secessionists, or something in between.

Did the north go to war with the south because of their claim that secession was illegal? If it was explicitly legal, would they not have gone to war? That's all facade because what we're really talking about is revolution.

So getting back to my original point... yes, revolution is illegal. So what?

It is what the Scots have the opportunity to do.